Curse

Anarchist_Monk · Jun 17, 2005, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Ok, I don't understand this "botting". How can you set up a program to run around kill things and pick up items? Or is this a different type of botting? If so please explain.

ManadartheHealer · Jun 17, 2005, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Don't worry about it

Axehilt · Jun 17, 2005, 05:24 AM // 05:24

I don't really see GW having much of an economy, nor does it need one. Max items are pretty easy to find, and that alone removes much of the need for an economy.

The exception is PVP Runes/Items. And the solution to that is to unlock all Runes for PVP characters, and to ensure that PVP-only weapons/armors are of equal power to the best stuff you can find in PVE.

Aside from that, we don't need gold sinks. This game shouldn't be about farming things indefinitely. It should be about successfully completing PVE missions with your friends and competitive PVP which is based on player skill and not time spent playing.

Algren Cole · Jun 17, 2005, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cap'n Hoek

Ummm, how large are these amounts you're talking about?

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/guild...w_6095131.html

ArenaNet built its own proprietary graphics engine for the game, written by cofounder and programmer Mike O'Brien...

you know that the graphics engine is only one of the multitude of engines required to design a game right?

=HT=Ingram · Jun 17, 2005, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Not sure I like the concept of charging for PvP... They do charge for some areas in the game already (Fissure of Woe, and Underworld), AND the economy of the Runes made some good gold sinks to get the gold out of the economy...

I would be for more (Paid for) bonus areas like fissure and underworld, But not PvP... The point of PvP is to go head to head without having to mess with the PvE part of the game except to unlock stuff that is... However you do not have to stay as the same character you have had from the beginning just to do PvP. This allows for a person to try multiple professions without excessive penalty for removing your old PvE lev 20 character.

There are more spirts in the temple of ages... maybe the others could go to new areas someday.

FluidFox · Jun 17, 2005, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Only two people on this thread seem to have grasped the fundimental problem with the economy. So to save Ensign time, I'll spell it out for you all.

Gold is coming into the economy at a steady rate which is increased some by farming but that isn't the deciding factor.
Everything drops gold and everything sells for more gold.

So tons of gold is coming in every day. Where is it going? I'll tell you. NOWHERE. The gold is moving around from player to player but it is never leaving the system in any substantial way. There are only two ways to fix this.

#1 Reduce the supply of gold so that it is super hard to obtain in an effort to 'cool off' the economy. This will lead to a lot of griping but it would eventually solve the problem

#2 (also known as the "right way") Build in a helluva lot of money sinks that people will actually use so that this surplus of cash is actually taken off the market.

Lets go over our current money sinks and why they aren't working.

15k armor: This is their best one but it is something that won't come up often enough to make a difference. One sigil will cover the cost of two full sets and once you have your ideal armor crafted, that sink is no longer in play. It only takes the money from the people who aren't the problem, New players. Anyone playing for a while will have all the 15k armor they will ever need unless they start a new character somewhere down the road. So, effectively, that money sink doesn't exist in the long run.

Dwarven Ale: Come on guys.. It is a useless novelty item that has no benefit beyond a few minutes amusement. People may spend a couple of platinum on it before they get tired of it, but it will never be more than an extremely minor money sink for people who are bored and want to make their screen blurry.

Expert Salvage kits and Identify Kits: Persistent and always needed and an effective money sink in an extremely minor way. With another 70-80 things just like it they may just have this problem in hand. (but who wants to deal with that?)

Dye: Another minor one that has been in since the beta. But even if you want to outfit every single character you have with black dye, it still won't do the trick in the long run.

They need more money sinks, and they need high end money sinks. They need a place where you can blow 100 plat in one whack if you want. Maybe a booth where you can buy various permanent cosmetic tweaks for your character. Whatever it is, it needs to be put in or the economy will never balance out.

The simple fact right now is that there is WAY more money going into the economy than is going out. At this rate, the gold will have about the same value as it did in Diablo II. (only at least they let you gamble off a lot of it) If money keeps flooding the economy like this, gold will become useless as a medium of exchange. Pretty soon people will start using Sigils and superior runes and black Dye as currency because it will be the only thing worth anything.

Weezer_Blue · Jun 17, 2005, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

1) It's not an MMO

Quit kidding yourself. What part of this game still remains "competitive" with the time played > skill system in place?

Malchiel · Jun 17, 2005, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

Quit kidding yourself. What part of this game still remains "competitive" with the time played > skill system in place?

stop trolling.

Kaht Khan · Jun 17, 2005, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by FluidFox

Only two people on this thread seem to have grasped the fundimental problem with the economy. So to save Ensign time, I'll spell it out for you all.

Gold is coming into the economy at a steady rate which is increased some by farming but that isn't the deciding factor.
Everything drops gold and everything sells for more gold.

So tons of gold is coming in every day. Where is it going? I'll tell you. NOWHERE. The gold is moving around from player to player but it is never leaving the system in any substantial way. There are only two ways to fix this.

#1 Reduce the supply of gold so that it is super hard to obtain in an effort to 'cool off' the economy. This will lead to a lot of griping but it would eventually solve the problem

#2 (also known as the "right way") Build in a helluva lot of money sinks that people will actually use so that this surplus of cash is actually taken off the market.

Lets go over our current money sinks and why they aren't working.

15k armor: This is their best one but it is something that won't come up often enough to make a difference. One sigil will cover the cost of two full sets and once you have your ideal armor crafted, that sink is no longer in play. It only takes the money from the people who aren't the problem, New players. Anyone playing for a while will have all the 15k armor they will ever need unless they start a new character somewhere down the road. So, effectively, that money sink doesn't exist in the long run.

Dwarven Ale: Come on guys.. It is a useless novelty item that has no benefit beyond a few minutes amusement. People may spend a couple of platinum on it before they get tired of it, but it will never be more than an extremely minor money sink for people who are bored and want to make their screen blurry.

Expert Salvage kits and Identify Kits: Persistent and always needed and an effective money sink in an extremely minor way. With another 70-80 things just like it they may just have this problem in hand. (but who wants to deal with that?)

Dye: Another minor one that has been in since the beta. But even if you want to outfit every single character you have with black dye, it still won't do the trick in the long run.

They need more money sinks, and they need high end money sinks. They need a place where you can blow 100 plat in one whack if you want. Maybe a booth where you can buy various permanent cosmetic tweaks for your character. Whatever it is, it needs to be put in or the economy will never balance out.

The simple fact right now is that there is WAY more money going into the economy than is going out. At this rate, the gold will have about the same value as it did in Diablo II. (only at least they let you gamble off a lot of it) If money keeps flooding the economy like this, gold will become useless as a medium of exchange. Pretty soon people will start using Sigils and superior runes and black Dye as currency because it will be the only thing worth anything.

Actually Traders are money sinks - they buy cheap and sell for more. The "profit" is gold that disapears.

Black dye is not a money sink since black dye is found by players and tipically traded amongst players. The closest black dye gets to be a money sink is when it gets sold to a trader and later bought from that trader at a higher price.

Another money sink is armor crafting. Not just the gold payed for the armor but also the crafting materials. Crafting materials not used in making armor (either directly or indirectly by selling them to other players that then use them for armor crafting) are transformed into gold by means of selling them to the trader/merchant - thus crafting materials have an inherent gold value.

I suspect the introduction of rune and rare material traders has added some big money sinks to then economy - previously they were traded directly from player to player and thus all the gold stayed in the economy, now the difference between the trader's buy and sell price is money that disapears from the economy. Since runes (esp majors and superior) are much higher value items than the typical crafting material or vial of dye (except black

), there's a lot more money being removed from the economy IMHO.

Still, more money sinks are needed, especially for players at end-game: After one has the armor and runes needed what's there left to be bought from traders?

=HT=Ingram · Jun 17, 2005, 08:41 AM // 08:41

FluidFox has the right ideas... That is 100% the problem, not enough to take gold out of the economy. and Way to many ways to get it...

We like Bonus Areas like the Underworld and Fissure of Woe being 1 platnum, and the 15k armor. But some of the other things we want to see are stuff like guild upgrades, and event purchasing.

So if you want to have a private guild game of capture the flag or something you can buy it at your guild commerce station and allow your friends alone to play it.

Gold sinks currently include:
Forming a Guild
Guild Cape
Cape Redesign
Sigil for guild hall purchase,
Fissure of Woe
The Underworld
Rune of Superior Vigor
Rune of Superior Absorption.

Guild Upgrades are listed here. Please show your support for these potentially effective gold sinks as well.
Guild Upgrades Request

FluidFox · Jun 17, 2005, 09:40 AM // 09:40

I hope that Anet manages to do something about this. It was nice during the betas when gold was still worth something.

GW is a micro economy in which they have full control over points of entry and exit. It shoudn't be that hard to manage.

Zeroed · Jun 17, 2005, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Easiest way to fix the economy would be to take money back off players - now that they've fixed farming, forcibly getting rid of peoples money would send prices crashing. You can bet how popular that change would be. Also as mentioned above the traders are really money sinks in disguise.

evrqst123 · Jun 17, 2005, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Personally, I believe the economy can be helped (maybe not solved) when and if they make an auction house because it will create competition among sellers, driving the price down. At the moment if you are looking to buy something from another player, it is so difficult to find what you are looking for with all the cities with different districts that once a player finds what they're looking for, they're willing to pay more than its probably worth.

Diplo · Jun 17, 2005, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by evrqst123

Personally, I believe the economy can be helped (maybe not solved) when and if they make an auction house because it will create competition among sellers, driving the price down.

That's what I think. It would also (hopefully) reduce the trade-spam that seems to swamp the chat channel (since most sellers don't bother to use the trade channel). Also, apart from anything else, it would be fun, too

Phaedrus · Jun 17, 2005, 05:56 PM // 17:56

To get back on topic: the player you saw probably wasn't getting bids. He was just trying to scam people. I sell clean max damage dragon swords for 1k. I sell them for that because the people who need a bright fiery status symbol will pay it, and it undercuts the asses who charge 5k. It's tidy profit for me, but not very immoral since I'm not so much gouging and requiring a convinience fee.

"Inflation" is more accurately termed "greed" since it is players asking for so much money.

[ ]

ishar_dragon · Jun 18, 2005, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Hello, i experienced a graet devaluation on the rune prizes since rune traders came out, in fact i was giving all my minor runes for free today... one suggestion to create a solid gold sink will be to put a reasonable minium/maxium prize for the runes sold at rune traders, it's usual to happen that they buy your runes for an average of 25, save for the dmg absorion, vigor, and the warrior runes and some other important skills, that i mean it's a very very little number of runes that haves a good price, IE: a major inspiration magic rune costs 120(that's insanely cheap, imho) i guess that the rune traders are "bugged" or not balanced in some way, they might be showing the market tendency,(yes warrior runes are very expensive, and vigor ones too)but the other classes get their runes for nearly nothing, so... one little help for this, would be fixing the rune trader minium/maxium prices.

drowningfish999 · Jun 18, 2005, 01:56 AM // 01:56

I agree the rune trader's buy prices are pathetically low. I think they're should be a much more standard buy/sell price for runes. Primary traits, vigor, and absorption I can see going for a little more, but anything other than that is just dumb.

Lane · Jun 18, 2005, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by FluidFox

#1 Reduce the supply of gold so that it is super hard to obtain in an effort to 'cool off' the economy. This will lead to a lot of griping but it would eventually solve the problem.

Actually this won't solve the problem... the rich will be rich and the poor will stay poor. The same problem as now would exist, only you wouldn't feel the affects quite as much and as quick as we do now.

The only thing that can solve the problem is to have some money sinks like 15K armor, or any other items that you must buy to improve your character but have no worth to anyone (including the merchant) but yourself (as in customizing equipment).